EP 204: [Interview] The superpower of art - Michaell Magrutsche

Austrian-Californian multimedia Artist, creative and awareness educator, author of 5  books, podcaster, speaker, coach, former Newport Beach CA arts commissioner

In our wide ranging conversation Michaell shares how to build awareness and engage with your human superpowers

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcast, Spotify or other platforms.

Audio

Video

Clips

EP 204: [Interview] The superpower of art - Michaell Magrutsche

Austrian-Californian multimedia Artist, creative and awareness educator, author of 5  books, podcaster, speaker, coach, former Newport Beach CA arts commissioner

In our wide ranging conversation Michaell shares how to build awareness and engage with your human superpowers 

Guest Links: 

Michael on linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaellart/

Website: https://michaellm.com/

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVoYLf4psWlWvtBYPksHAIw

Podcast: https://anchor.fm/michaellart

Give a review:

If you enjoy this podcast would you be so kind as to leave a short review on Apple Podcast/iTunes? It takes less than 1 minute and really makes a difference to convince future interesting guests to join me for an interview.

Connect with Jens Heitland:

Sign up for my weekly Newsletter ("Connect the Dots") where I share the innovative articles, books, podcasts etc. I discovered during the week. https://www.jensheitland.com/newsletter

Follow me on social media: https://linktr.ee/jensheitland

My businesses Businesses:

Heitland innovation: https://www.heitlandinnovation.com

SUCCEED Leadership Education Platform: https://www.wearesucceed.com

Applied Innovation Transformation: https://ai-fortuna.com/

Transcript:

(This Transcript is AI generated)

Michaell Magrutsche

[00:00:00] Hello innovators, and welcome back to another interesting conversation about human innovation. 

[00:00:06] Today's guest is Michaell Magrutsche. Michael is Austrian, California multimedia artist awareness and creativity educator, speaker and author. In our wide ranging conversation, Michael shares how to build awareness and engage with your human superpower. Please welcome to the show Michaell Magrutsche Hello Michael, welcome to the show. 

[00:00:32] How are you doing? 

[00:00:34] Hi, Jens.

[00:00:34] Good to see you again. I'm good. It's beautiful. Sunny and Southern California. But it's cold. It's cold, 16 degrees Celsius, terribly 

[00:00:46] cold terribly from 

[00:00:47] a European perspective at least. Yeah. And Let's do it. What can I help you with, sir? . now. Yeah. 

[00:00:56] I was looking forward to the recording already all day, before we go into creativity and other interesting topics we have discussed before, tell us a little bit about who you are and how did you get to where you are today? 

[00:01:09] Okay. I was born in Vienna, in Austria, and I was a sick child and I went to school when I was seven. . And then I got the second whammy that I realized I was dyslexic and DYS graphic.

[00:01:24] And what happened was I wasn't a rebel, I wasn't a lazy child that was sitting somewhere or twirling the thumbs. I'm actually a kind of what you call an A personality. So I kept hitting. The systems and I had to repeat three classes. I was speaker of the class, so I was always good with humans but I think that's the default.

[00:01:48] You have to be good with humans if you can't fit in the systems . And then and then I figured out, by 30, because all my jobs were create creativity related and I felt the. Valuable in, in the creative community that I was an artist and I don't actually, and this was the first introduction of what, there's a difference between me and the system with, between human and the system.

[00:02:14] And I thought, I don't need anybody to tell me I'm an artist or give me a prize or an accolade that I'm an artist. I'm an artist because I look at my jobs and it was DJ fashion produce. Media, television and so on. So it was all the nba, I brought the NBA to Vienna, the national football things.

[00:02:36] So everything was creative. How did you, 

[00:02:41] how did you end up from going from Vienna to California? 

[00:02:46] Let's far away. I was trying to get school. . I was trying to get the school done. Huh. And I failed and failed. And I did the economic gde, whatever you have that general education. Yeah.

[00:02:59] But I have no education system education at all. I have no title, nothing. Yeah. And I thought because, as it's very Europe and especially Holland right now is suffering from that because the humans cannot adapt to all the system rules and regulations. Yeah. Because you can't be human through systems.

[00:03:18] Systems. We are the guards of system. We create the system. So you have to have human connection like we have here. At least if you use technology. And I thought America is better and I knew from not because I had problems, but I , I'm gonna end up in America. Not because, oh, this is so great and I wanna be better than anybody else.

[00:03:38] But I felt like the freedom was very appealing to me. Yeah. And then I went as I got a no pair job basically as a manager of a house and a butler. Yeah. And I got that and that came here and then formed the television company and so on. 

[00:03:53] That's fascinating. How old were you when you moved? 

[00:03:57] Between 18 and 20. Because at first I visited first 18, then I go back. Then I said, no, I need to get a job there because it's not just traveling. It's about the job. Yeah. I need to know more about it, 

[00:04:09] Let's talk about creativity. So when we catched up last time we talked about.

[00:04:16] The combination of innovation and corporates and people jumping out of the corporate world and trying to find out how they can build their own business. When you think about creativity and linking that to innovation what comes to mind? 

[00:04:31] While I was creative, I also found that 97% of creative people are artistic. People are on the poverty level worldwide. Yeah. Now I'm asking you and the audience look at the world.

[00:04:46] Everything is created. We are the gods of the system. It doesn't matter if it's a high rise or an invention or the extinguishing of disease. We created all these system, hospital, religion and everything is created. So the first superpower that I define that human have inherent in them is creativity.

[00:05:08] Yeah. It's our part of God like that God likely we can also create obviously in a much scaled down relationship. But we are the gods of systems and that's why I'm. We can adjust and adapt system to humanity and nature, but we cannot try to save nature or fix humans with shots or whatever.

[00:05:35] We are part of nature and nature wasn't created by us. So if we talk about systems, we can do anything. That's why I keep saying we should adapt systems to be human, adapt, not. and you know about adaption, right? You know about ironmen, even we use adaption to make systems work. Yeah. The whole, 

[00:05:59] If we follow that threat, there's, there are people who are working in corporates like the big ones.

[00:06:05] Yeah. And big ones, let's say plus 10,000 employees. . There, there are people who are saying, no, I'm not creative, I 

[00:06:11] can't. Because they're unaware. You unaware of that, that that you're doing everything. You're creating your life. You're saying, I'm going in this school, I'm doing this.

[00:06:22] I'm marrying this woman. I'm, you're creating you, you look at everybody's home. Everybody's home looks different, and you created that environment that most fits your. So you are unaware because, and this is what I found out why the people are all poor the artists Yeah. Is because we are looking at the product.

[00:06:45] Product and also art is systemized. Meaning we are not looking at what it takes to create a podcast. And the communication with your non-physical, this is not spiritual. This is just Yeah. You're non, you have an inspiration. You have a convocation. I'm gonna make this background, I'm gonna do this, I'm using this microphone.

[00:07:06] I'm gonna be only on the side. The other one is on the other side. And somebody asks question. It's very organized out, not so you constantly have that conversation with you, with your non-physical and physical. And the result is your podcast, the physical result is your podcast and the big problem.

[00:07:27] We look at art as a product, and it has to look a certain way because it's themed as art in society. This is what art looks like. Yeah. But there's no definition of art. Art doesn't ask. You have to have a hundred thousand followers. You have to have be success. You get a Grammy, you get an ammy, you get, they don't say it's just the humans, that system that gives that product, that show, that artwork, that song and a system accolade.

[00:07:57] And in systems obviously you have to be a specialist, right? Because it's like saying I cannot do I cannot do bookkeeping. You're not as good as a bookkeeper, but you still can do book. Yeah. And the bookkeeper is just specialized. And that's the skill. That's what the artist, the only difference between an artist and a normal person is that the artist keeps communicating and the communication with his non-physical, it gets clearer.

[00:08:26] And then when the clearer your communication is, the other person can recognize that communication. So everything we create, like in a business, this is the big thing. Everybody has that. It's I wanna be an Ironman tomorrow. I'm not gonna be an Ironman tomorrow. And that's why I say I'm not an Ironman, but it might be possible.

[00:08:48] I don't know. I haven't tried it. You know what I mean? Yeah. And people are very afraid because art is not definable. It's not, it has not, fifth sales figures and all that stuff. Yeah. You can look at the at the. , but it's not why should I pay for Basque a million dollars?

[00:09:03] And he basically was, it's all not system relevant because he was a drunk, he was drug addicted, he was frustrated, he was a really disturbed human being. Not in a bad way, but in a poor way. and he pissed on his paintings and all this stuff, yeah. But the authenticity reflects in that there is a com, there's an authenticity in that communication that he had by creating.

[00:09:28] And that authentic indeed, people were like, now systems don't reward authenticity only on the top level. They want true and. Patterning that, that, a car has four wheels. It, it takes a very little energy. And so all these things that we combine them and make a hybrid and now we make an electra.

[00:09:54] So it's always trying to get the most profitable things that we can sell. And their test is not creative. Yeah. And if you start thinking like that, , which keeps us all in check. Systems keep us very much in check and that's good. But to keep us at bay that we are not expanding in the human potential is a problem.

[00:10:17] And that's why we have the problems we have now because we're trying, for example, political correctness, right? So the system, essential systems created gender differe. race difference and now they wanna define sexuality, right? You can't when you have these racism, we have racism. So that's a problem that was created through systems because the king didn't know I need warriors.

[00:10:44] I need sent that. The Warriors there and the woman, okay, we don't know what the woman, it just cook and take care of the kids and feed the warriors. And that's how we separated the value of. Of of man and woman, and then we conquered lands and the people look different. Okay? The conqueror is stronger.

[00:11:03] The people that we conquered and the slaves and all that stuff, okay? They look different. And so there, there must be minute in the value system because in system everything has a value. Now, the difference, I'm coming back to this because the, when you go in the artist community, you also. two leads in a play, for example, so the c e o of the of Dart, right?

[00:11:29] They have two leads, but nothing goes, if not the lighting, the stage hand, the intern the sound guy. If not everything works together. Yeah. You don't have that. That's why I'm saying that's a, that's why art is a superpower because it shows you, us how human humanity could function also on a system.

[00:11:51] Because in the system of art it works. We need everybody, the c e o of mess. No idea what the guy that does the souls for the shoes, what he goes through. He has no, he's disconnected. Now, if you, in, in the art in a theater play, if you're disconnected, Your plays over because people go there to feel and they cannot sense.

[00:12:16] There's an authenticity. The lead thinks he's everything and everybody else, or the or, or the second lead thinks she is everything or he is everything and he wants to take all the the glory. And people don't like that. It has to be the whole, and this is what why people, they're so afraid of saying, okay, I'm an artist, or I'm creative.

[00:12:38] and I said to him, I said to, and that really I great question because it was doing the same to me. People say, oh, I don't know. I'm not an artist, I'm a businessman. I said, don't even say that because if I take the artistry of you away, you are not a businessman. Yeah. The moment I'm taking your artistry away, you're nobody because the that, that you are relevant as a businessman is because you are an.

[00:13:07] And not because you're painting, but how you navigate Monopoly for the Monopoly game we end. Yeah. You are an artist man. This is, and it gives, there's nothing more exploited than Oh, monopoly game. You pay me $10 right. On a credit card and four people make money. That's what I'm saying.

[00:13:24] This is the economic system is so exploited that if you are not an artist, if you're not creative, not manipulative, I'm just saying creative. , that's why you have to manipulate because people are not creative enough. So they, there's only certain people that are creative and the other people, they're just manipulating.

[00:13:42] And that's why a system always supports manipulation. It never will, the system can to kill 200,000 people in Russia or Ukraine. , but if you kill me, you get in jail. So it's, it's very judgmental. What it does and what's good for the system, or what's going on with football right now.

[00:14:00] This whole thing is, 

[00:14:01] If we take that thread, how do you then teach someone to be created? How do you get. learning that, or opening up is maybe a better word. Opening up, I dunno. How would you 

[00:14:11] say that? How do you I would say opening up is the right thing.

[00:14:13] It's being aware. Because if you, the moment I say it's the art is cr first of all, it's what we call is art world is the art business. And that's a business like anybody else, it's like a Walmart or Kmart. It's you pay for the product. Yeah. and you judge the product on how many people like it or whatever but the awareness that art and art creation, you need to separate the two.

[00:14:40] And the art creation is a hundred times e, exponentially more valuable for humanity and human potential and how we develop and how what we learn about our species. Then the. , the product is just a reflection of that conversation. But the creation, and, my, my podcast that the 20 sec, 30 seconds, the smart of art is just 30 seconds of quotes.

[00:15:08] So you become aware, I try to mentor humanity about my findings. It's not that I invented that, I'm not. Invented it, but I realized, oh, hey, through my neurodiversity, I can see these things. Yeah. It's like a superpower. I see these things. I say, oh, if there's more the air, and the more I dive into the arts creation, the more I find out about how we are blind also to our systems.

[00:15:35] We're we don't know. We think we are part of systems we're not part of we're still part of nature and we are always limited. If we look at. Through a system, yeah. I'm a successful c e o and therefore I'm a great human. No. Yeah. That, that doesn't work. That, that is, yeah.

[00:15:53] It's quite interesting, specifically when you talk about the big corporations that Yeah. You, a lot of people want to be part of that system because this stepping up the ladder as part of the game. Fulfilling them, but then they end up and myself included, I was on a very high position.

[00:16:13] And then you end up, and then it's not fulfilling you and you think you have achieved everything what you have been looking for, but then you find out like, yeah, maybe not . 

[00:16:23] Yeah. You said the operative word fulfillment. Which fulfillment is in the human realm. In nature realm. Fulfillment is success.

[00:16:33] Yeah. So success in is a system word like lazy, in nature, is no lazy. There is no such thing as lazy, yeah. Or obsolete. It doesn't get nature's a hundred percent recyclable. It is, it's perfect. It adapts constantly. It's constantly adapting. There's no stress, nothing. Stress every, because you are, you have stress.

[00:16:53] Good stress or challenge because you exist. That's a given on in nature. And also your worth is proven by you existing. You have worth. Yeah. But in systems you don't. I what you contribute to the system. If, for example, I would be better than you in a system and you couldn't be as good as I, and I could give more for the system, I would get more.

[00:17:17] and therein I get blind because we do this for generation, and I think that now I have more words than you and it doesn't work. It's like the art. That's why I say the art everybody has is important that everybody contributes with their strengths and not who is the better or worse?

[00:17:34] And also, that's why leadership is so hard, which you teach, right? Leadership is so hard because they think it's a hierarchy. It's not a h. The leadership. The leadership is that person that is the most self-aware and that is, is the most self-aware, like what you just said. I was very high up and I realized I'm not fulfilled.

[00:17:56] That's self-aware. Yeah. And that person has nothing else to do as a leader. Then make sure that everybody is balanced in the system, that everything is. . So you see there's a heat coming up. You give it a little cold. There's this, you bring, and everybody's a superstar. You never look at it, okay, these are the guys that, that, that grease the wheel wheels and then this guys the middle management.

[00:18:21] And without sales, I cannot do it. You don't think ever that you just make everybody feel their part. That's why I'm very much for sharing profits, sharing tips in a restaurant. , I'm very much for that because it, and I was against it because I worked in a restaurant and they told me, from now on we share the tips.

[00:18:43] And I was a big tip, gge, I, and I was like, ah no, . And I was sorta against it but my life changed like 180 degrees. The moment we shared tips, it was such, you don't know. leadership impact that had that we all of a sudden shared the profits and everybody was working. Nobody would allow anybody to slack off or this every, it was harmonious because nobody was, oh, he gets more than me.

[00:19:11] It was gone. Yeah. That's, it's amazing. That's interesting. 

[00:19:14] That's le linking that back to innovation. It's also interesting what you said is with the leader being aware and helping everyone to contribute in a way, , they understand what's going on. That's when innovation happens. It's not when I push you into a corner.

[00:19:32] Yeah. And I say, you need to work five, five hours more and I'll watch you over the shoulder. Yeah. That's not 

[00:19:38] working. . And you pull me out of balance. Yeah. So because where's where if as a leader now you and I are talking about, between two leaders. When do I get the most out of a human being?

[00:19:51] Let's say I'm just system, I'm looking at just from the system basically. When the, when I squeeze out five extra hours or when I try to balance that person and say, take a half an hour off. Yeah, go half an hour early, or come half an hour later when a person is balanced and has that thing they, I can get everything.

[00:20:15] If I wanna explore the human being, I keep Impala balanced and c and comfortable and see, they try systemically, like Google, they try to do that and give them playground, but it's just the, it needs to be authentic. It needs to be from human to human. Yeah. It can't be systemic. It cannot be systemic.

[00:20:33] Okay, we gotta make playrooms, we gotta give them great food, we gotta give them a parking spot. All bullshit it. They need to have that, that the power is in the. , the power is in that play, whether it's two leads, the power is not in the brand. And what it's what you don't see. And everybody's p happy to be a part of it.

[00:20:54] And it's our view that we look at big companies like Apple or McDonald's or whatever, we look at those and say they're bigger than humans. No. When I look at those companies and say, oh my God, that's great. How did they do it? Or, , I think. Okay. Humans did that. I'm part of that species.

[00:21:12] I'm not saying I did it. Yeah. But I'm saying that's a reflection of who we are. Yeah. If 

[00:21:19] we link that to, one of the things I found in one of your blocks is the creative voice. Yeah. What is a creative. 

[00:21:28] Creative voice is important to Rollette what we talked about. It's, I, in 2015, I created a, an artist movement.

[00:21:36] Because I know so many artists and my whole life was artists. And I ask very famous artists, is it, what is that? What is your voice? What is that? That is the essence of your work song, painting, whatever. And almost nobody can, could tell me, I said, found one. that really could explain why they do what they do and how.

[00:21:56] So I say, why are you doing what you're doing? Explain that verbally and why you're doing it and how you do it now. How, give me the context of why, why you creating, why you have green canvas only, yeah. So gimme the context of that. and also put always a title on, on, on the thing because it's a part of that voice, because you wanna define what you create.

[00:22:19] So you, when you create words, then that helps people to understand. I know words are very limited, but if you know another actually a sheet a pdf, f I can send you from my course that I did, and it's 50 questions and you can easily make that for business. , why you're doing what you're doing, what you know.

[00:22:40] And so define your puzzle piece as a company to fit in the whole of the monopoly game, not of humanity. And also in that in context that would then say, so how does it help humans? Because if it doesn't help humans, you don't have to start any company. I'm sorry I that's, there's no, if it doesn't contribute to the, , there's so much product out there, we don't have the time even to find it.

[00:23:04] So we don't need extra product. This is not sustainable. It's against nature. We don't need more cars, car companies. We have all the car. We need different forms of transportation, not more car companies. Yeah. And and I would say, because we know also that advertising is stagnant for 50 years, it just shifts from one to.

[00:23:28] So what are we doing to us? This is awareness. What are we doing to ourselves? Creating these new car companies and then just people shift from one to another. They buy less Mercedes, they buy more Kias. This is what is the purpose in the big picture? Yeah, it's bad for the, for Mercedes, but what is in the big we stealing each other with our life force.

[00:23:49] We're just taking from other manipulating from. Whatever we, that's just to survive and we have to start living to enjoy living and not living to survive. Which systems got us into that. 

[00:24:04] That's a very important one. One, one of the things I learned as well when you get to a personal level that you are aware, like you mentioned, that you.

[00:24:17] Yeah I'm stop living in the way I live before because I don't want to anymore. I'm not trying to fit in. I figure out who I am and I'm just living in the way how I want to live. And if some people are not okay with that, then it's their problem, not my problem. Because what I just see a lot of people try to fit in as much 

[00:24:39] as.

[00:24:41] and their fear shames you their fear because they fit in and you don't. Yeah. , they shame you when they say, Jen, you're not a human being. You're not a normal human being. Yeah. But normal cannot be defined. See, this is, if you could define it, I would say, okay, we can all do it. But you can't define normal.

[00:25:01] Yeah, you can't because the whole thing is on shenanigans. The financial princip. I have become, it's great to, if you want, create a hammer and I create a short and we don't know need it, we can exchange with money. That is great. But when the financial principle, that simple exchange becomes the sense of life and makes us all de codependent and put in, put us in fear that we say if we are not fitting in, we are not, we are dead tomorrow.

[00:25:30] which is, if and you see it in extremes where in communist country where people apply, follow the rules and there's still, and it doesn't work. It is just less than here. But humanities, everybody is a puzzle piece of the human. , and that's what we have to realize is that there is no extra humans that are irrelevant that we can just kill 200,000 in Russia.

[00:25:55] We don't, every human is valuable because we are part of nature and nature doesn't make mistakes. And I think that,

[00:26:05] when we get aware of it, it's not, see, we can't even blame people. And you can't blame systems because on the other side of systems are humans. And when you are aware of this, I can't fight the system because people often waste their energy, say, I'm gonna fight the system. You can't fight the system.

[00:26:21] There's other humans behind it. Yeah. And one human against many is always weak because there's more. More together. , you need to be aware that the system may makes everybody lose if you use the system like we use now, and that's why they're all collapsing and not trusting humans.

[00:26:41] Limitless necessly or power or creativity if you don't trust those things. , you're gonna lose. You got everybody loses because on the one side you create taxes. And on the other side, somebody goes, also a mother that wants to avoid paying taxes. And we all lose because we all wasting the energy, the life.

[00:27:03] Yeah. 

[00:27:04] So when you work with individuals or groups, how do you get . Them to find their awareness and get. their creativity 

[00:27:12] and finding, but that what I do. I basically make you aware of distinctions. Know your human superpowers, not what the system says. Yeah. Creativity. Human discourse, but healthy not. I'm right. You're wrong. Yeah. There's never a discourse that worked if it's about against and force, again, a system discussion where everybody loses their life force.

[00:27:36] Let's get into the last part of the podcast where I am asking a couple of questions that are maybe related and maybe not related.

[00:27:48] If you could work with a project that is impacting every human being on earth, what project would you work with and why would you work with 

[00:27:57] that project?

[00:27:57] I 

[00:27:58] don't think there's a system that can work all over the world because it's so limited. Yeah. Systems are limited. It can't fit everyone. We need many systems to adapt to the. That uniqueness of every human is unique. You can't, you can the median, systems work on median, statistically, and then and if you don't fit in the median you can't get everybody on this earth in the median that doesn't work.

[00:28:22] There's too many people on the edges. Yeah. And those don't fit. Then what you're gonna do with those, you.

[00:28:28] Next question. Thank you for that question. Excellent question, , 

[00:28:31] What advice would you give to a young innovator?

[00:28:36] Get a job and to support your innovation? No, like artists. Yeah, like an artist. Get a job to enjoy creating. Don't enjoy innovat. Get a job. That is as simple. Don't get a c e O job, get a, restaurant job or something that pays the bills. Yeah. And then use your thing to enjoy what you're doing.

[00:29:01] That's what I do. It's, it's what I did my whole life because I could never fit in. I was not elected, c e o, and the jobs that I had, arts Commission of Newport, It's a free, it's it's, you don't get paid for that. Yeah. But they, 

[00:29:15] I I like that because a lot of youngsters they always want to get to the big hierarchy game, the big boss.

[00:29:24] But I agree. If he, if you're interested in making art and creating things that's the better version. Just get something that pays your bills. , enjoy what you love to do and maybe one day you can earn money with that. But it's not milk 

[00:29:41] the moment, not the goal. Milk at the moment. I always say that in the arts, when you're creating, if you ever wanna be as successful as an artist and fulfilled, first Fulfilled, yeah.

[00:29:54] Milk every moment while you're creating and said, I chose to do that. It's not, I have to do that. Yeah. And create the moment. And same for an inventor. You wanna invent a. Engine for a car that doesn't, that's sustainable. Then get a job that just get paid and then sit down and tinker with your friends.

[00:30:13] With your friends is often very good because you can all go together and and you can gauge if they're betraying you or not. They just, you just. , just make a contract B before the whatever comes out of this relationship will be, distributed sep equally, yeah. It's, we, the power is always in together, not in the separation.

[00:30:34] That's why we have, yeah. Everybody's individual so we can fit all together. We are not the same to fit together. We are individual, they're all fit together, so we have infinite possibilities of shuffling. to get that human weave really good and even then adjust it even better. Yeah. And that, and in that adjusting better, aligning, balancing like nature, we get more of the human potential.

[00:30:59] and our human potential is, as you're a great example for that Ironman, that shows you your, what you are capable of, yeah. And it's not just mind over matter, it's not just mind it's bother you, everything you have to. Think about everything. You know the combination.

[00:31:15] That's true. , it's the all It's not oh, you, we are doing all this mind experience with you and then you can just bite yourself through a, an ironment. That doesn't work. Yeah. No. It's the whole, always the whole, we are in a holistic nature environment. It's always the whole love 

[00:31:34] that last question.

[00:31:37] Where can people find you and how can people contact you? 

[00:31:41] That I don't know, ? No. i michael m.com. Michael with two ls michael m.com. It's my social, my LinkedIn and everything. You can connect with me. Yeah, 

[00:31:56] we'll put the links of course, as well into the show notes so people can straight away find you and as well.

[00:32:02] the awesome podcast you do. I love the 32nd version. I've never seen that before. When I listened to a couple of them, I was like, oh my God, that's so clever. So yeah, congratulations. But it's 

[00:32:14] very condensed. Yeah. It's really condensed, right? It's and even though it would take you only two hours to listen to all my happy hundred 35 but everything is really deep.

[00:32:24] It's really makes you think from a total different angle. Yeah. It's really, 

[00:32:27] it's all that crazy really. I love it. 

[00:32:29] Thank you. Thank you, 

[00:32:30] Angie. Michael, thank you very much for being on the show. It was a 

[00:32:34] pleasure to have you