Learn actionable strategies for lead generation, from targeting the right companies to leveraging LinkedIn for prospecting and engaging with prospects. This session explores building relationships, overcoming challenges, and using community and networking to close deals.

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Morning Coffee with Jens: Lead Generation

In this session of Morning Coffee with Jens, we dive deep into the world of lead generation, offering actionable insights and proven strategies to refine your sales approach. From identifying the right companies to engaging effectively with prospects, this episode is packed with valuable advice.

Key Takeaways from the Session

1. Targeting the Right Companies

Lead generation begins with a clear focus on the companies that align with your product or service. Success hinges on researching and identifying prospects whose challenges and goals your offerings can address.

2. Using LinkedIn for Prospecting

LinkedIn is a goldmine for connecting with decision-makers. Jens shares tips on how to optimize your profile, search strategically, and use personalized outreach to stand out in a crowded space.

3. Engaging with Prospects

First impressions matter. Whether it’s through LinkedIn, email, or other channels, crafting messages that resonate with prospects’ pain points and offer value is key.

4. Building Relationships and Closing Deals

Sales isn’t just about transactions—it’s about trust. Jens highlights the importance of nurturing relationships with prospects, offering insights on how to move conversations from initial engagement to closed deals.

5. Challenges and Reflections

Like any business process, lead generation has its challenges. Jens discusses common obstacles, such as handling rejection and maintaining persistence, while sharing strategies to overcome them.

6. Community and Networking

Your network is your net worth. Jens emphasizes the power of community and how networking can open doors, provide referrals, and create long-term opportunities.

7. Final Thoughts and Next Steps

Wrapping up the session, Jens offers actionable steps for refining your lead generation strategy and encourages leveraging available tools and networks to maximize results.

Lead generation is as much about strategy as it is about building authentic connections. By targeting the right companies, leveraging tools like LinkedIn, and focusing on relationship-building, you can transform your sales process. Whether you’re a seasoned professional or just starting, this session provides the tools and mindset needed to succeed.

Stay tuned for the next Morning Coffee with Jens, where we continue to explore strategies to elevate your career and business.

Highlights:

00:00 Introduction to Lead Generation

00:27 Targeting the Right Companies

03:46 Using LinkedIn for Prospecting

05:38 Engaging with Prospects

07:28 Building Relationships and Closing Deals

17:45 Challenges and Reflections

22:23 Community and Networking

28:09 Final Thoughts and Next Steps

Transcript:

[00:00:00] Lead gen, two, two perspective. Of course, one is for keynotes that what we did Monday a little bit. And then the other one is business, which is more interesting to you. Yeah. Business, I guess.

For sure. Which one? The business one. It's for me more, more important right now. Yeah. So if, if we go into very detail, so what I have, I have, uh, top 100 list. Of the companies that I would like to work with. And of course, I'm, I'm now, I give you the example on, um, the agency that's more similar to what you do.

It's like consulting, let's say use the, if we take succeed, the leadership development platform, that's again, different, but the key thing for, for the consulting [00:01:00] business and as well, the agency, which is personal branding stuff is a 100 list. So what we looked into, of course you start with like, what is your avatar?

What are the people you want to work with? What are the industries you want to work with? That's the starting point. And then we looked into different markets. So for the launch, I looked into the Netherlands and then we looked into the top industry companies. So high tech industry companies, because what I have seen, if we take the personal branding stuff, I have seen and checked which CEOs are visible and which are not visible.

So what I've seen in general, the, let's say the high tech industry, big industries, they're all not visible. Most of them, only a couple of, and then you see that they are the leader of the whole industry. So that's, that's, that's how I started targeting from industry companies. And then we looked into what [00:02:00] is the size of the company and what is the sales volume.

Um, and you can find this things normally in the internet, especially of course, the public companies, it's easy. But I'm trying, I'm trying not to focus too much on the public companies, because if you take public companies in the agency field, for me, it's like personal branding and thought leadership for the CEO.

Most of the time you have more hurdles to get a CEO that is in a public company to do anything. So, so that's, that's the reason why. I really zoomed in. And if you, if we take the Netherlands, I have found a report that was already like two, three years old, which was summarizing the, I think, top 200 companies in industry and they ranked them by, um, turnover.

So I've used that list and then like cross checked Half of them to see, okay, which are the companies and, and then, then [00:03:00] link this. Hello Dorches. Welcome back. Um, we're, we're just talking about lead generation, so I'm just explaining how I, I do this with the agency. Okay. Understanding the avatar, then I looked into industry rankings, and then I looked into the companies that have a CEO that is not positions.

And then I brought all of them into, into one list. And from that list is everything that starts. And I did this for the, the, the Netherlands, for the UK, for, um, a couple of pieces of the U S and as well, Germany. So that's just like the markets that we focus on right now. And with that, then the starting point is always different versions, but let's start with LinkedIn.

So I use LinkedIn as the sourcing and prospecting because LinkedIn, you see how they're positioning themselves. So I start with [00:04:00] the company. Let's say I look at LinkedIn and see where they are with the company. How do they market themselves? So in your case, it may be it's a little bit more focused on how do they do employer branding?

How do they work with HR topics? What you can do as well is looking into how many jobs they have open and all these kind of things. The obvious stuff. I do this. So so then I follow the company and LinkedIn as a starting point so that I get all the updates and then I start engaging with the content that they are sharing.

Unfortunately, in my case, if you take the industry companies, they don't do anything like some of them. And they're just, they're like 2 billion companies. It's not small companies, but they haven't posted anything on a company account since six months or so. So obviously if I now start going backwards with them, then I commenting and liking posts for two years ago, that's a little bit awkward.

[00:05:00] No. So then in that case, how do you make connection? So I, I, if we still stay on company account, I still check what's going on. And then I go inside of the company account, you can see the employees. So then I look and I focus right now on marketing PR and the C suite. So what I, what I do is I copy their personal account, like the, the, the personal account links into, into, into my tool so that I have them handy.

So whenever I look at the company, then I see all the profiles. Of the people that, that, that I want to check out. The starting point is always not sending a connection request. So what I do is, is really engaging with their content over time. So I look at their profile, I check them out, I see what they do, I see how often they post.

Obviously, I start with the CEO because that's my target person, but then it's assistant of the [00:06:00] CEO, PR manager, chief marketing manager, like that, that's my, that's my sequence. So I go then further as well as CFO, chief operating officer. And that's always checking them out, see what's going on, engaging with their content.

And then roughly two weeks later, I sent them a blank connection request.

And then, then as soon as, so what I do is I go out every day through the list and in the agency, I do this myself right now. So I go through the list and then I check, did any one of them accept my connection request? Because then you get a permission to send them something. So, if someone accepts, if not, then I still engage with all of them, all of their content, and try to find out, do they have, if you look at LinkedIn, sometimes you can see contact details.

Then you have the email as well. So if they have it public, then I use that as [00:07:00] well for opportunities to reach out. But not first step. So I'm not spamming anyone. I'm just engaging with their content and try to be human. Like build a, build a natural connection. And important. That's for both of you, because I know what both of you do.

You have both a high, high ticket offer. So let's say. 10, 20,000 euros upwards. You don't need 50 clients. That's why this is different. So you have often, in my case, most probably it's like a three month lead period to, from connection to close connection means in this case, like I talked to the person first time.

Mm-hmm . Like with Christian, was the guy I was on the phone in, in Switzerland. This was roughly two and a half months that I got them to say yes. Yeah. So that's just something you need to be aware of. So all of them, all of that leads towards that. So that's good. Let's go back engaging with the [00:08:00] people on LinkedIn and then trying to get, get the connection to them that you can text them on LinkedIn.

And then what I do is always this ACA acknowledge. Compliment, ask, it's a normal conversation flow and I'm not selling anything. Very important. So I, I then react to posts that they do, let's say the PR manager is posting something on, on LinkedIn and then it's all, I have seen your posts really cool about, let's say they have implemented a new machine because it's a, it's a, Um, industry company that is, I really like this approach, what you shared and then I always try to bring it back to the human element because that's what I do.

Um, and then I ask them questions about these things. I don't do anything that is sales in this. And then over time, I'm trying to get an understanding of how, how they are and how they react with these things because. [00:09:00] Let's say this, this takes time. You message, they answer two days later. You message, they answer two days later.

So sometimes they answer three weeks later. So it takes time. And then I try to get them slowly towards that. I can ask questions more towards PR and more towards, in my case, like personal branding of the CEO. So I'm trying to nudge them very, very slowly over, let's say, eight weeks towards that direction so that I can ask questions.

Okay. The interesting thing, and that's, that's where the whole system comes in, as soon as they accept your connection request, they see all your content popping up. So the, the, the content structure that, that both of you have is, is kind of, is nudging them already with the content you have. So even if they don't want to, they still see it because they can't get rid of the algorithm.

Because the algorithm knows that you are connected and you are writing with each other. So that means it shows the things. in their feet. [00:10:00] So that's, that's the positive thing. And what I've had already a couple of times that they then reached out to me, I have seen this post. So instead of me doing it, they reached out to me, which is quite cool.

Even CEO. That's the way you want it. Exactly. That's the perfect way because then they show interest straight away. But you do this with, let's say I have roughly 10 people per company. So that's 10 people per 100 companies. It's quite a lot, but because it's a long lead time and sometimes it takes years to, to, to get someone it's, um, it's, it's nudging everyone forward over time.

Obviously a hundred is quite a lot. So I try to do at least an hour per day, so I will not be able to reach all the 100 is just like the limit of time that I have. If I would have a sales team, then this is all their focus. Then they go from top to bottom of the whole list and find ways to reach out.

Then, I mean, I'm just explaining LinkedIn. [00:11:00] Then I would go further as well going into other channels. Like email, if you have the email, you can do the same on Facebook, you can do the same on Instagram. I don't do this because I get a lot of people that are reaching out LinkedIn, email, Facebook, Instagram to me.

And this, this is super annoying, at least for me. Because, you know, they're only reaching out to you to sell something. It's not building a true connection with this. What I have seen with iTicket, this works for 49 euros something, but it doesn't work when you, when you build iTicket topics. So like for both of you is really, you need to build the relationship first so that they trust you.

And then. They, they see that there's value in it. So engaging with them. And then number one is getting them into the first call. The first call is more kind of a qualifying call. You could, yeah, you could call it qualifying call [00:12:00] understanding. Do they see that there is a problem with, with what I want them to see that there is a problem.

Like in my case, do they have a problem with sales? Do they have a problem with. They're marketing channels. Do they have a problem? If you take to the PR manager, in my case, and the PR manager says, yeah, our CEO, he's not really public and he does not want to, that's for me a good one. Because then I say, okay, how, how can I help you be our manager to get your CEO convinced that it should be.

Because sometimes it just takes the external nudge to, to a CEO. So I try to understand their problems. I try to understand their desires. And then I try to understand if they have money, which means budget for this kind of things. And then I, if, if yes, then I try to move them forward and try to get them into the second call, which is more an intake call.

So when you learn more about them, it's like, okay, what are you doing? Let's, let's, let's figure [00:13:00] out how I can help you because that's what you identified in the first one. Hey, would you be interested that we do a call where we just explore if I can help you to be successful with your CEO, or if it's with the CEO, then it's.

I do the same. Sometimes it's as well a physical meeting, like with, with the guy that I had on the phone last Friday, that was, I met him already in person twice. So the first meeting was an introduction meeting. The second meeting was kind of the intake meeting. And then the third meeting was the sales meeting where I presented him.

Hey, I think this is what we could do for you. So the third is always the. Kind of the pitch meeting, but then you have taken all their problems and then you just take the problems and their desire and build the bridge. And this obviously for me, like for both of you might be 80, 90 percent what you always do, but it always feels to them that you go exactly because the way you explain this is that.

You explain this based on what they told you. So you, you [00:14:00] just reflect back to what they told you and then, then you show them that's the solution towards that. And then in, in the last one there, it's, it's less when it comes to very big clients, but there are still two, two important topics. One is the emotional side and the other thing is the logical side.

So you need to work always with both. With the two of you, it's very easy because you work with humans. You are like, you are both in tune and understanding how they are ticking after the first two conversations. Like, you know, is this a logical person or is this an emotional person? If you know this, then you can, you always need to bring both that, but then you can put the emphasis more on the emotional side or more on the logical side.

So, so just to give you an extreme logical, you talk to someone. So the, the return of invest of this. The activity that we are going to do is 25. 7 percent and this is how, how this works. So you give them [00:15:00] detailed step by step. The emotional person is more, imagine the CEO is on stage and is really getting you the exposure with the company that you would like to have.

So it's, it's similar, but, but you push a little bit more on the emotional side. Imagineering. Exactly. And then always get them into, so you always need to ask for the sale. That's, that's something I did very wrong quite a lot of time. I never asked for the sale. So it's, it's, it's then really always going back to, okay, so how do we, how do, how do we take the next step?

And important, always present. So always try to present the pitch. Never just send an offer because then you don't know how they're reacting because the offer can be like five pages, but you can't reflect to what you, what, what they told you. So if you, if you always have an best is in [00:16:00] person, but let's say in digital world works the same, try to give like you, you reflect always back to from their problems towards the desire and you show them that this is the bridge.

So just to give you an example with one of the CEOs, what, what I've seen that, um, she wanted to kind of position herself for the next level. So she wanted to go from this CEO position in the next four years to the next CEO position, but like bigger business. So for her, that was the most important thing.

It was not increased sales. Yes, it was important because it's part of it, but for her, it was more, I want to position myself to, to be seen as the valuable CEO to get into the next company, if, if you understand this, then you can just reflect that into the pitch all the time, important thing. That's what you should always do.

Is in every [00:17:00] single interaction, try to get the next meeting booked. So let's say first call directly. Okay. When do we talk again in four weeks? Let's put it into the calendar. Cause if it's in the calendar, then they're there, then they're most likely to join. And then what I always do, especially with the CEOs, I always follow up before either with the assistant or with them personally to say, Hey, is tomorrow still good?

It just increases the likelihood that they're joining the call. If it's a call. Yeah. That in a nutshell. It sounds easy. It sounds easy. It's not. I know. So how's it been going for you, Christian?

Improvable, I would say. That's good. Last year was, was, was not good. [00:18:00] Mistakes and did not do things correctly, but the business in Germany for, um, our product is what was bad. It's getting better, I guess, right now. So I have more, like, at least the feeling is that more happened in the past two weeks than all of last year, which increases confidence a bit.

Um, but still, um, there need to be tangible. results. That's the big thing. And this was relationship building that Jens was talking about. What, how is that? How does that work for you and your business? Well, I'm not doing it always, unfortunately. Um, but I can, I can relate to that. Um, basically I always interact with, with interesting, uh, posts on LinkedIn.

And, and, um, out of that, um, I actually generated the call and out of that call, I generated at [00:19:00] least a very small offer that hopefully will be accepted within the next few weeks. Um, just because I did not post the usual, Oh, you're so smart. You're so good. Yeah, there's a lot of, um, well, I'll say it nicely.

Um, honey distribution on LinkedIn. Yes. And that's the thing I can't do, um, because it literally against everything I believe in. And back then I said, well, um, congratulations. It's a very good first step. Um, but It would be even better if you could reduce, it was like feedback on interviews they have a week.

And I said, a week is way too long to wait for feedback on an interview. It should be within 24 hours. In my previous companies, I had eight. Wow. Um, so basically the feedback should be in the system immediately after the interview. Um, [00:20:00] that was the, the, the connection point. Why, why we spoke. And that also kind of triggered some, some other, at least, uh, interesting things like podcast, uh, and, and stuff.

Nice. So if you reflect on it, um, you see that it works much better than just doing bloody cold outreach because cold outreach doesn't. Yeah. Mostly it doesn't work at all. Who likes code outreach, right? So, yeah, that you at least get an answer, which is nice. Yeah. Okay. Here we go. The key thing is, is really this relationship building.

You need to do this every day, five days a week, because it, it takes time. That's it's, it's not like I put an ad in and then the ad is converting within like two hours or something because the, like the, this ad is shown to the person 20, 000 times is really. And that's, that's as well, the statistics, [00:21:00] what you see in, in sales in general, it's To get the awareness is the, is the starting point.

And then there's a long nurturing phase where people are interacting with you, but as well checking you out. And, and that's quite a long time in between. So as more interesting stuff you have that they can find about you, as easier it gets to, to, to move them forward. And that's often the challenge. If someone looks for what you do and they can't find anything like you don't example, I know people, they have no website.

No social media and they just reach out to someone on LinkedIn. That doesn't help. So if they can't find out more about you, they will never talk to you as well, because they don't know who you are. So as more human you are, as better it is in my experience. And that's the point. That's as well, the part with the higher ticket stuff and B2B of course, because [00:22:00] we, the three of us are selling towards B2B, it's not B2C.

So B2B is for me, in my experience, a hundred percent relationship. It's never going to be, let's say this cold outreach. Yes. Maybe if you send out, let's say a thousand emails per day and you find a database of people that maybe you're lucky, but that's more luck than strategy. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, so I've been, maybe this is interesting as well, thinking and working with the mycelium networking strategy, which means that you ask people to, to be ambassador for you.

And then, of course, in return, if you, if you have friends, you will like what they offer as well. So it's easy to recommend somebody to somebody else. Um, and that really works beautifully and, uh, recently because I met somebody at a conference, I was requested to write a, an article. They will put it on their blog, which goes to 2000 readers in Germany.

Then through that method, I hope, um, people will know on the Netherlands is not that far from [00:23:00] Germany. Hey, maybe we can book this woman for our teams, you know? So, um, I, I really believe in that, in that social side of, of, uh, relationship building as well. And you help each other, um, to build business rather than just, just relying on algorithms.

Yeah. A hundred percent. And that's what, what I want to create within this community. Yeah. Um, the smaller one, the bigger one is too, too many people. I think like, like, Tristian was joining us in Switzerland, um, you, you just see, like, you know, each other now after two days spending time with each other in depth.

And we spend a lot of time on getting to know each other. So of course, then you, you say, okay, I like, I've seen this and I know that this person can help that. I, it's not nothing for me, but I can build the link and as, as more you nurture that and as, as better it gets. Over time. Yeah. So Christian, let's link on LinkedIn.[00:24:00] 

Sorry? Let's link on LinkedIn. Yes. The two of you anyhow should talk because I think you have complementary things. Okay, cool. Where you could support each other and even think about bundles and so on. All right. So what's your last name, Christian? Oh, wow. Could you put it in the chat? I can, I can send you both as well.

You could link us. Yeah, that'd be great. That would be good. So regarding community, Seraphine just sent a photo from the Caribbean. Yeah, I've seen it. Oh, sorry. Also, what, what's It's not only about the potential relationship or the connections you can have in the community. For me, it's also creating a bit of peer pressure, right?

Because people are doing this, and [00:25:00] then you don't want to kind of stay behind. That really creates a bit of a pressure to get A bit more moving or move differently than, than you did before. And that's actually also good, at least for me, I sometimes I need a kick in the ass to do stuff. Positive pressure.

Yeah. Yeah. Agree, agree. That's how it is. Right. And it's like, you have seen, we talked about, let's go all to Doha and pitch ourselves. On Friday, we are talking to the organizers. Really? Nice. Yeah. So this, this things go very quickly. If, if people work together and let's, let's, let's figure it out. So in Doha, I'm still interested, right?

Berlin, I can't make because I'm in Tuscany the whole week, uh, but when is Doha? February. I have no idea yet. We'll figure it out. Um, as long as they pay, I'm still, I, I, I might be. That's the idea. Yeah. So what's happening in Doha? Doha. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. [00:26:00] No. So during the last weekend, uh, Hosna said, Hey, there's a startup conference.

And let, let's, let's try to, to all go there. It's like, yeah, if we are not paid, we are not going to Doha. Okay. Let's pitch us as, as a group of 10 entrepreneurs. And we're, we're speaking on stage. Cool. And then she just reached out to the king and to a couple of other people. So now we on Friday we have a call.

Very cool. Or tomorrow. All right. You'll all be wearing the t shirts, right? Exactly. Cool. I guess Hosna doesn't feel any pain when it comes to reaching out to people, right? Not at all. It's, that's personality types as well. Like same, same with Serafin, he, he just goes to the doors and rings the doorbell.

Slightly different business, of course, but yeah, I would not be that person like, nah. No, never. It's okay. But being friendly, just being genuine works for every single human being, whether they are the king or, [00:27:00] or the person on the street. So, and, and, and one thing is. That's what I have experienced. If you don't ask and reach out, it's not going to happen.

Like the shots on goal you don't take are definitely not going in. That's the thing. If you don't ask, You will that it's definitely a no. Yeah. Yeah. So that's also something that where I even myself need to kick my Myself in the butt sometimes to hey reach out to that person ask again. That's the whole follow up part Yeah, and I think this community and other support from other entrepreneurs can help to deal with the rejection because we all get weary of oh, you know, we we took so much initiative and Didn't get anything this month or this week.

And, uh, yeah. So sometimes you just need to have some support with that. Yeah. It's normal. And you did your best, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. But that's also [00:28:00] why I'm, why I'm very much in favor to have higher prices because then you don't need so many people. Then you just can focus and work with the people you like.

If you, let's say sell something for 1000, You need a lot of customers to be able to, to pay you and it's yeah, especially if you are more than one person in your business, then it's very difficult, but we are at the hour. Thank you. Jens has the next meeting with me. I know, I know, but we jump into the other, into the other call because this is the recording.

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Transcript:

Personal development masterclass. One of the topics that's dear to my heart, because of what I have seen over the last 15 years is that personal development is quite seldom in organizations. It's not really taken, uh, in a proper way, at least in my eyes. So that's why I'm really keen on sharing this today.

So we have two. main perspectives. One or two topics for today. One is personal development talk versus performance evaluation. And then we do a deep dive into how I'm doing personal development talks. And then we do questions in the end. Personal development. So we have one part, which is the personal development talk, and then we have the performance evaluation.

And a lot of organizations, focus on performance evaluation. And the difference between those two is that the performance evaluation, the main part they are focusing on, or the main source of that is the company. So the company is on the top. And from there, it goes into, the individuals and the different tasks that need to be done to accomplish what's happening in the company, what is required to do to be done in the company.

And the individual that is doing the task is the last point. And then inside of the performance evaluation, you're looking backward. So you look, how did this person perform in the past? The development talk is the opposite. So the most important part of the. Development talk is the future. Where does the person want to be in the future?

And it has nothing to do with the outcome of the company or where the company wants to be. The goal of this is, and why, why do this personal development talk? I believe that if we are developing people in organizations beyond what the organization needs, they will contribute more to the company. They will contribute better.

So the goal of what I'm doing with development talks is finding out what the people desire and going deeper into that. And we will have a look at that in the next couple of slides. And then look, what are the different tasks of the organizations that fit the person and what the person wants to be. And then you marry these two things.

And then it works as well from a performance evaluation perspective. So that's my perspective on development talk and performance evaluation. Let's go into personal development talk a couple of, I think it's almost two years ago or something. I've developed this in as, as a worksheet. So if anyone is interested in getting this worksheet as a PDF.

Happy to share that. So, the starting point of a development talk is really a setup of the atmosphere and the place. So you are going to do a development talk with another person. So you are the manager and the, the other person is like reporting to you and then you're meeting up. So what you need to make sure of is that you have, an appropriate place.

The best case is always doing this outside of the office environment in a. In a place where people feel well, the atmosphere is super important. The time of the day is important, not doing it on Friday afternoon, for example, when people want to go on the weekend, of course, you need to be aware of your relationship with the other person, depending on how deep your relationship is.

You of course have then a perspective on how deep you can go. And how much that is. And then what is important as well is that you put the note-taking responsibility to the person that is inside the room or is working with you. So me as a leader, I always give the note taking responsibility for the other person because then you see what they understand and what they get out of that.

And then I always do as well. A version in front of us so that people understand this. So printing out this worksheet as an example, if you do that in a physical space, then you print it out and then you go into the development talk. And the starting point of the development talk goes really wide.

Looking into what's the personal vision like. I always ask these as open questions without showing them the worksheet in the beginning. Who do you want to be? And that's very, very, very wide. Like, who do you want to be? What does it mean? Some people who have never had a conversation like this, struggle with this.

So they start with, yeah, I want to be a manager. I want to be something specific. So they go very, very, very specific and they don't really look into the future. So the first round of this, I just, Help them to find out who they want to be and they write down, they write down a manager. I want to be a good father.

I want to be whatever they come up with. And then I go to the next question and I show them the next question, not before. So why do you want to be that person? So then they're reflecting on the answers they have given and then they go back and refine who they want to go to be. And that's an interesting process because what.

You as the manager that is holding this development talk are doing, you're literally shutting up and just asking open questions to tell me more. How, how does that feel? What does that look like? What would that look like in the future? So you only ask open ended question when that gets the person talking and reflecting.

So if you're saying this, what does it mean? So, and then they're explaining, explaining, and they go in a loop between who am I going to be? And why do I want to be that person? So until they have clarity, and the first loop is always. The starting point where they don't know what's going to come, then who am I going to be?

They come up with high-level topics and then they go, Why do I want to be that person? Then they go back to Who am I going to be? And then they go deeper. And I always then give them a perspective. Okay, think about five years, 10 years from now, who do you want to be? And then they go more particular in all of these things.

And then we go, we don't close this, we keep it, we put it aside. And then we go to the next sheet, which is a personal development map. So I want them again to reflect on certain questions. And it doesn't matter in the order, I just take them clockwise right now. But it's really going and answering the specific questions.

What do I want to learn? So you're asking this, the person that is in front of you. So what do you want to learn to be that person? So linking it back to that person of the future. And then you're asking, what do you want to improve? And then they come up with things. So it's, it's like writing down the, all the different topics and then what do I want to leave behind?

And then they come back with topics that they want to leave behind. Another question is what excites you? Yeah. And then going deeper into this, who is important to them? And then what is important to them? And when you have done this circle, you go around it and they were deeper in this topic.

What quite often happens then if you ask them, so how, if we go back to the other one, is that still the same thing you want to be? Because they have now clarified what they want to be. and answer the question, they go back to this one and then clarify, no, no, no, I want to be this, I want to be this. What I always ask them, in this part is to paint a picture.

So when, when we have finished with this one, I go back to this one. And say, from a personal vision perspective, imagine a picture and describe the picture that you see on the wall. And then they describe to me who they want to be and who they are going to strive to be inside of a picture and explain everything that is around them.

I've had, for example, a person that told me where they are going to live, what, how it feels, um, in this picture, where the kids in this picture, where the wife or husband and, and going really into details and then linking this to. A job perspective as well, because in the end, we are at least this part is in a job environment.

So they are linking that to the job environment of who they're going to be working with as well. So these two are super powerful. And then you go into the next step, which is a goal perspective. So it starts with the staircase. So in the top right corner, we have what is the goal. And the starting point is really, um, defining that goal.

So if you want to be this person in five years, what is the goal for the next year for you to be very specific? And of course, you can do smart goal setting and all of that, but it's in the end, What does feel right for that person? What is the development goal they want to reach in one year from now?

And then they formulate that goal. And then you go to the bottom of this page where you look into where do you stand today on a scale from one to 10. So they're rating themselves on how close are they to that goal. If they're close, then they're at 10 or 9. If they're far away, then they're at 1. And what always happens is they're somewhere in between, obviously.

So when they have rated that, then you look into what are the things that get you closer to that goal, meaning moving your scale from 5 to 10. And that's what they are writing down above the stairs. So, above the stairs are the things that are getting them closer to their goal. And then they're defining this in bullet points and formulating that out.

And [you do that obviously all in a conversation. You ask the person who is doing the development talk, you are asking them questions to get them moving. You're asking them clarifying questions about the topics that are put, into the sheet. And then the next part is, what are the things that getting you further away from that goal?

So downstairs, if you think at it from a staircase perspective, and then they're writing these things down and then they have a clear picture of a goal staircase where they, they know they want, where they want to be linking that to the vision that's five years from now and the goal picture, and then they rate themselves.

And have then clear understanding of that are the things I need to do to get to my goal and that are the things I should not be doing. And then the last step of the development talk is getting specific. So now we zoom into one year and actionable goals that help them or tasks that get them towards the one-year perspective.

So what are the things they're going to do? When are they going to do this? What do they need to make happen to be able to do this? What are the things they need help with and how I'm, how they going to measure them? So it's a very, very simple setup where they write down literally the different steps that help them to get there.

And they're putting measurable goals towards the goal. And this is roughly. I would say one and a half hours, even if we go through this right now in a theoretical setting in, let's say 15 minutes in a real conversation, in a coaching style, where you ask the manager or coach the other person to find out what they are desiring and where they want to be.

It takes roughly one and a half hours if you do that well, sometimes it's faster depending on the relationship as well. The fascinating thing with this is it has zero to do with the company you work in and one hundred percent to do with who they want to be. And as well as zero to do with you as their manager, if you're their manager, like your perspective, your opinion on anything of that.

Um, just to give you a couple of examples, I've had people that told me that they want to be. building their own company in the next five years and they worked in the company and I was their manager they told me because they trusted me that they wanted to build their own company and we built a plan for how they were going to build their own company and I've had situations where people told me that they want to get married in the next five years and then we built a plan to get them towards marriage getting married and looked into how that does that work with the career perspective same with kids and all the other things so this is a development tool you That I use with everyone that is working with me over time because I believe that as further we as managers and organizations help people to develop as better it is.