Leadership Open Mic
Dive into leadership insights with professional stuntman Chuck Borden in the Leadership Open Mic session. Learn about personal branding, servant leadership, building trust, and balancing digital and physical leadership. Discover tips for effective communication and team collaboration.
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Leadership Open Mic
The Leadership Open Mic session featuring Chuck Borden—a seasoned professional stuntman—offered a compelling look at leadership through the lens of high-stakes action. From the sets of Fast and Furious to the complexities of team management, Chuck’s journey highlights the universal qualities of great leadership.
Key Takeaways
1. Leadership Under Pressure: Lessons from the Set
Stunt work involves high-risk situations that require precision, trust, and teamwork. Chuck emphasized parallels with leadership:
• Quick Decision-Making: Leaders must remain calm and decisive under pressure.
• Team Trust: Collaboration is essential when lives—or business outcomes—are at stake.
2. Personal Branding in Leadership
Chuck discussed how leaders, like performers, must manage their personal brand:
• Authenticity Matters: Genuine leaders build stronger, lasting connections.
• Reputation is Key: Your personal brand influences how others perceive your leadership.
3. The Power of Communication
Effective leadership relies heavily on communication skills:
• Active Listening: Understand your team’s needs and concerns.
• Clear Messaging: Ensure your vision and goals are understood.
4. Adapting Leadership Styles
Great leaders evaluate and adapt their style to suit their team and context:
• Self-Reflection: Regularly assess your leadership approach.
• Flexibility: Tailor your methods to meet team dynamics and challenges.
5. Building Trust Through Generosity
Trust is foundational to leadership, and generosity can foster it:
• Give Freely: Share your time, expertise, and recognition.
• Encourage Transparency: Honest communication builds trust and loyalty.
6. Servant Leadership and Courage
Servant leadership involves empowering others while leading with courage:
• Support Your Team: Prioritize their growth and success.
• Lead Boldly: Make decisions with confidence, even in uncertainty.
7. Respect and Continuous Growth
Effective leaders earn respect through knowledge and humility:
• Pursue Lifelong Learning: Stay informed to remain an effective leader.
• Show Respect: Recognize and value diverse perspectives.
8. Digital vs. Physical Leadership
Balancing digital tools and in-person interaction is crucial in modern leadership:
• Leverage Technology: Use digital tools for collaboration and efficiency.
• Foster Personal Connections: Don’t lose the human element of leadership.
9. Goal Setting and Team Collaboration
Clear goals and collaboration drive team success:
• Set Clear Objectives: SMART goals help align efforts.
• Encourage Teamwork: Foster a culture of shared purpose and cooperation.
Chuck Borden’s leadership lessons from the entertainment industry remind us that great leadership combines courage, empathy, and adaptability. Whether managing a stunt team or leading in a corporate environment, these principles apply universally.
Action Steps for Leaders
• Build trust through generosity and openness.
• Adapt your leadership style to fit your team and situation.
• Balance digital tools with personal connections to strengthen relationships.
• Prioritize effective communication and continuous growth.
The next Leadership Open Mic promises even more insights—stay tuned!
Highlights:
00:00 Open Mic Introduction
00:25 Meet Chuck Borden: Professional Stuntman
01:17 Fast and Furious Stunt Stories
03:45 Leadership and Personal Branding
08:01 Effective Communication in Leadership
13:44 Evaluating Leadership Styles
24:56 Leading in Society and Public Speaking
25:59 Building Trust Through Generosity
27:37 Servant Leadership and Courage
29:20 Respect and Knowledge in Leadership
30:28 Giving More Than Expected
32:22 Trust and Openness in Leadership
35:45 Challenges of Managing Large Teams
45:55 Balancing Digital and Physical Leadership
50:37 Goal Setting and Team Collaboration
52:10 Conclusion and Upcoming Keynotes
Transcript:
[00:00:00] So open mic, any questions, any ideas, anything you want to discuss. I don't need to be leadership can be everything. When Andre joins, then we go towards leadership latest because he has thousands of questions.
He has the questions. Yes. Yeah. Well, I'll just throw it out there since I'm the new guy. I'm just starting here. Um, my name is Chuck Borden. I'm a professional stuntman and, uh, moving into, uh, you know, speaking and, and leadership roles, stuff like that. Yay. Great to have you. Y and I have been talking for about a week now, bro.
Welcome. Can you guys need, need to Google Chuck ? Just, just use, use his his name and Google him. You'll say [00:01:00] fascinating videos of him running through fire and being lit up like a candle and so on. Crashing cars and jumping off of buildings and all sorts of stupid things that don't make sense. Yeah. Frank and interesting for you.
He was a stuntman in Fast and Furious.
Fast nine and fast 10. I did both of them. The last two. I tell you what, two days ago, you're not loud enough, Frank. Oh man. I tell you what, on Saturday I was, I was at the toy store. I just wanted to get the Charger RT from Toretto, the scale model of the car. And I got it. Oh man. I love cars. Super cars are from the fast and the furious the charger rt and maybe another one but Only the old ones the the american muscle cars.
They are my my favorites Yeah, we had we had [00:02:00] when we did uh fast nine I believe they shipped over six chargers that were custom made chargers the dome dome chargers And each one was valued at about two hundred fifty thousand dollars They were all custom made
and surprisingly, they look, all those cars look great. Most of them run like crap. They just, you know, they just, the hero cars are of course the hero cars are made really nice, but the rest of the cars, we're going to, we're going to crash them and stuff like that. They don't put a lot of money into them.
So we get, you know, you're going to crash your car and you're lucky to get up to speed to crash into something. Cause it's, they're just cheap. Yeah, that's fine. I mean. Every penny of this classic muscle cars. It was a man to have the car inside the museum or in your living room Something like that. I did a I [00:03:00] did an event in rotterdam last year Um that had I got invited because the fast and furious and craig lieberman was there I was a guest with him and they had like nine of the cars from fast the furious I think a lot of them came from chrome cars in germany, and they there would be some beautiful cars You Uh, now, now I got a collaboration with a guy from Hamburg.
He's doing all the Porsche restorations. Um, I got material from, uh, 111 Carrera, 911 Carrera, uh, 76 or something like that, uh, pure gold, the material. Oh man, it's amazing. You guys need to connect. You definitely need to connect on this. Good. Any, any more questions or any questions, leadership topics? Any personal branding, keynote speaking,[00:04:00]
nothing, videos. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. How to be a good leader inside your niche. I mean, in my case, I speak about sustainability, fashion and automotive, and they are the three verticals I choose to post all my content. And now after one year doing this stuff every day, now I start seeing some fruits. After planting the seeds time ago.
Um, but how, how can you be a better leader with the need to choose to be more known inside the verticals or at least inside the society in their social media? Yeah. I think number one is understanding what you talk about. Let's, let me show you where it is inside of the community, because that helps maybe everyone that is watching this.
Um, if we go into the community, I'm sharing my screen inside of the [00:05:00] classroom. We reorganize the classroom a little bit. We have now here boost, uh, get paid for keynotes, which is slash personal branding, because the whole thing about, um, Speaking on stage regularly is about the system and inside of this we have the key system explained, which is the first part.
And then when we go into personal branding, we have An exercise that is kind of let's, I think it's this one where we go into your personal brand mission. That's, that's what this is about, Frank. So understanding for you is like, you understand your verticals. Like you said, you talk about cars, you talk about, um, sustainability, you talk about leather and sustainability, and it's, it's bringing everything back to your why, how, what.
If we go very, very simplistic so [00:06:00] that you are able to talk about these things and that that's part of this exercise where you go deeper into these things and where you understand for yourself, like, what is your mission statement? What is what is the mission that you're on? But then it goes next to. And I think the interesting one for you is not like your origin story and where you come from, but the one that is called the attractive character.
Because what you do in here, one thing is you go into your flaws and then you turn them into stories that help you to overcome them. The next part of that is. You go into, um, developing your communication style and your tone of voice, but how do you communicate to the audience and in your case, it's a specific audience that is attracted by what you're doing and what is like the tone of voice that you're using for that.
And then the [00:07:00] next level of that is you're, you're building taglines and catch phrases that you, that you use over and over again so that you attract this people in the way that you're communicating. And just. using this to be cautious. I'm not going through everything right now because every one of you has access to it.
It's just what I have learned from myself, leading myself being extremely cautious and not cautious, conscious about what I'm talking about, because I can talk, I can do videos on everything. I can do content on everything, but I, what I have fun on. But what other things that I know are going to help me to get to where I want to be.
And if you're then conscious about this, then you say, okay, this is the tone of voice that I need to do to attract the right potential customer or speaking engagement that I want to get to. Because you can do fun videos, [00:08:00] but they're not converting. I was, I was having, I mean, you were a part of the call before as well, which was at five with the CEOs.
Well, we talked about LinkedIn. You can, you can create LinkedIn posts where, where you get a lot of engagement and a lot of likes, but that, that doesn't mean necessarily that you get a lot of business out of this. So if I'm, I was giving the example in that call, whereas if I have. Of a call where I take my little six, seven year old now daughter on, on my arms and I, and I smile into the camera.
Of course I will get a lot of likes because she's beautiful. She's sweet. She's seven, but does that convert into business? I doubt. So I think the key part to your question is, is really how do you do something that you consciously decide this other topics I talk about and I talk in this way about this.
And you see this because I'm following Christian. I know what [00:09:00] his content is and he does that. At least, I guess consciously, he's German now, just by the videos that I have seen and watched from you, uh, Christian, you do this automatically, right? You have like the topics in mind that you talk about. Yes, and the thing is, the more I do it, the more I realize that stuff is coming back and back again.
So basically whatever I do, um, and whatever I see, um, the comment that the very few comments I get pinpoint to the main topic. That is underlying everything I say, and you have been part of that as well. It's the kickoff meeting, right? Um, so basically, if you want to be successful in recruiting, you need to prepare properly.
Um, and based on that, I try to kind of, you know, shed light on the whole topic from different angles every now and then. So this week will be different [00:10:00] again. Um, so watch out for the video tomorrow. Um, but it's always Like, just like, like you or for you, Jens, when you speak about leadership, it's one story that, that, that basically it's one topic that, that you can kind of, um, speak about from different angles and different perspectives, but it's, there is no big change.
In, in the core of what you're saying, right? Apart from people being a manager or a leader. Um, and it's the same for, for me. I kind of found the topic I will speak about and, um, whatever I do, even if I talk about data driven recruiting or something, interviewer trainings or whatever, um, it will circle around one specific topic.
Um, and I can come up [00:11:00] with. Different new things, not on the fly, but I, I see my bubble on LinkedIn, I see other comments, I see posts, right, and then new ideas pop into my mind, how I can speak differently about the same thing. That's, that's basically it.
I have a question.
I got the same feeling because always it's the same. Sustainability, automotive, and fashion. And now I'm trying to get more interesting topics inside the three verticals I choose, but now I saw that the most important one is the fashion with sustainability. Automotive is nice, combining the leather with fashion, the results are much better than only fashion or automotive.
But sustainability in fashion, coming from the automotive, that is like three pillars that [00:12:00] they are working really well now for me. Yeah, nice. I mean, you, you have done consistently content at least the last year, if not longer even. I don't know, we know each other for two years. Or longer, three years. Time is flying.
But yeah, at least you have been talking about these things. Maybe not 100 percent consistency, consistent on social media, but at least on and off. All the time. In different ways. Yeah, so, uh, a couple of months ago I was posting three times per day. And it was nice, but I saw that one per day works much better now.
Now, because I was, I was posting in English, Spanish and German, and Spanish and German, no more interaction, but in English, I took the decision, okay, jump into English because it's more universal. Um, if someone [00:13:00] is asking for some specific in Spanish, I can do the staff one, one or something like that to, to, to go deeper.
But now unifying the, the, the language helps a lot to me now. It makes things easier. I have always thought about that. I do it in German as well, but one thing is double the work. And the other thing is, it's, it's just like, I, I just hope that enough people, German speaking people speak English. At least the ones that are connected to me so that English is just the easy way for me to go.
That's how I decided for myself. Evgeny, you have a question. Hi everyone. Do you hear me well? Yes. Yeah, great. As a No, I worked for bigger organization and we have leadership index in the organization, but my question is about, um, [00:14:00] your, uh, style of leadership because you are, uh, at least a couple of, uh, you, uh, leaders in, in the society, like, uh, uh, self, uh, um, entrepreneurs and so on.
How you, uh, um, I don't know, uh, evaluate your leadership index, uh, I would like to say, or leadership, uh, in. On who you influence, how many, uh, you can invite in your journey and so on. Is it clear or
anyone wants to start? I can. Okay. I give you time to think and I will start. But for me, I'm evaluating myself based on my [00:15:00] team members feedback. That's my number one thing, obviously now compared to the time when we worked together, if you, if Guinea, it was like different environment with. different amount of people.
But now if I look into right now, it's really 100 percent based on the feedback I get because what I try to establish from day one with everyone that is working with me. trust so that we have an open conversation and we can talk about things very openly, positive and negative. And, um, that means as well that they give me feedback on certain things.
And that's how I'm evaluating my leadership right now on this one.
Anyone else, Frank? So in my case, when I started, no one wanted to speak with me. And now, different [00:16:00] people is reaching to me to do collaborations because I did an open call if the people want, want to collaborate with me. I opened the brand clothing store to give them the material to start doing prototyping.
And that's helped me a lot. That is what Jen said the last time. So giving value for free, uh, to, to make the people curious about what you can do as a person, as an entrepreneur, even as a. Designer in my case, no, um, now after one year daily work, um, start seeing the results. Something like that in the communication and even in the invitations to speak in different places.
Now,
so for me, the question is, do we speak about team leadership, like leading a team or leading yourself? [00:17:00] Because I guess for me, there are different answers to the two things, at least slightly. I guess it's leading others. Leading others. Yeah. Exactly. Good. So, uh, um, that's a good topic. And now I'm actually joined so we can deep dive into leadership fully.
Um, I get for, for, for me, like several dimensions that I kind of take, take care of firstly, if I lead, I don't want to change. Me or who I am, right? So, um, I try to be as authentic as I can, um, without
hurting the others. That sounds, sounds harsh and rude. Um, but you, you need to know kind of your own trigger points. When do you react a bit more [00:18:00] harshly than in other situations, which are the situations that kind of trigger a response that you do not want to show. And I guess everybody has those, uh, those, those situations.
It takes a while. It took me quite a few years to really realize what is driving me mad. Um, And you still, I still can't avoid, um, those, those situations, but at least now I know how to cope with it. Um, and I learned what I need to do if I kind of slide into a situation that is really playing around with my trigger points.
Um, on the other hand, I learned that. You just need to, there is no one size fits all solution, at least not for me. Um, and I also learned that the hard way when I was leading a quite diverse [00:19:00] team, um, I somehow managed to do more or less back on back one on ones with my teammates. Um, one person was from Indonesia, the other one from Spain.
Um, and. they do not kind of fit well, very well together in terms of how to communicate with them. So whenever I had those back on back meetings, I used the same communication style for the person from Indonesia. that I used for the Spanish girl, uh, and it never worked out. And I was wondering, why doesn't it work?
Um, so I decided after a while, maybe I have to kind of split them and have at least a one or two hour break between those sessions. Uh, and that actually also did magic, um, because you have to Calm down of the, not calm down, but you need to reorient yourself. Um, you need to align your communication. You need to align your, [00:20:00] your way of addressing impediments or things that need to be kind of, um, addressed.
Uh, and if you do that, you also win a lot on our credibility. And, uh, you, you learn how to communicate with each and every one. Um, but that doesn't help you in meetings where everybody is there. Um, that's also something, um, that, that I learned. Um, after a while, you need to. communicate or you need to define a way of communication because people speak differently, there are people who read between the lines, there are people who do not, there are people who are very direct, uh, and there are people who kind of beat around the bush for quite a while until, uh, they think you actually figured out what they're speaking about.
So, um, that's also something that [00:21:00] that. I started implementing after a while, saying, if we have a meeting where everybody kind of is speaking up, make sure that you try to be as precise and down to the letter as possible, so that nobody needs to assume things. Because as soon as you start your assumptions, you are Usually you're off at least in my experience.
Um, and then, um, I try, I started implementing that and it worked, um, in the mid to long run at the beginning, apparently not, um, because everybody needs to adapt, everybody needs to learn, um, and, and you also need to feel free to ask questions if you do not understand what, what you're doing. Has been set.
So, um, that is another topic [00:22:00] for me. You need to have a very high level of trust between each other in the team. And, um, you need to have a very high level of psychological safety. So if you say dumb things and everybody agrees Say some things every day. Um, you need to be sure that there is no, no bad words about it or that, um, people take it literally.
Right. So it's for me, leading is a lot about proper communication. Um, taking people as. adults, um, treating them like adults. Uh, and if you are the leader, um, well,
be sure that you are not free of any faults or mistakes as well. Um, and if you realize you made a mistake, yeah, [00:23:00] be brave enough to apologize. Apologize like an apology is doing magic specifically if you're really fucked up things. I did everybody else I guess in the leadership roles. Um, so whenever you, you kind of See things that did not work out properly, apologize if you also kind of, that's also just, just maybe if you kind of think you need to discuss a specific topic with a person, do it with the person alone, right?
Do not try to kind of solve everything in a bigger meeting. Take a step back. Let everything run. And, uh, Do the one on one later on, and also take your time to digest everything. Don't do it immediately, because you will not be in your full mind, so to say, and you will not be able to control emotions, because as soon as you get emotional, [00:24:00] um, everything you think you do, um, right, you won't.
Period. Sorry. That's okay. We learn from long answers. You took notes. Um, good. So I I'm transcribing.
Evgeny, did that answer your questions? Question.
Yes. And not because for me, uh, of course, um, leading others in the organization is, um, is quite clear because I had my own experience and a good one and bad one. But my question was more about, [00:25:00] uh, leading others. I don't know, in, in society as a. Keynote speaker and they have, uh, followers, uh, like the leader of your, I don't know.
Idea. That's, uh, for me a little bit different. I, I agree. Agree, agree. My question was not about that. So clear. Yeah, but it's okay. I have, uh, greater answers on weekend. We can still answer that that way as well. I can. I'm happy to go. Yeah. So please. But for me, it's number one is give more than you take. If you just go in with the mindset of I'm giving.
As much as I can. So because that always automatically creates trust and from the trust comes the influence influence for me, and it sounds negative. [00:26:00] But in the end, influences people following you, um, by what you're saying, because they're convinced about what you're saying. And if you're a keynote speaker, you're let's say you have a topic that you talk about, and you talk about that in a credible way.
And you explain that in a way that people are, um, agreeing or disagreeing, And the ones that are agreeing are there, they're kind of following you. But if you give always more than you take, as more people will just be interested in engaging with you, engaging with your content, I give always the example that I give every single thing of education for free, a hundred percent for free.
Um, and I'm only charging for implementation. Education is for free and implementation. So automatically I create trust with that. And through that, automatically it's easier for me to, um, again, sounds bad influence people, but [00:27:00] built that trust so that people are saying, Hey, this is interesting. I want to learn more about this.
And that's, then if you look longterm converting into more customers that are going to be happy customers, because I'm like, I'm not doing the influencer way, which is I'm selling clicks and I'm selling. somehow courses that, um, don't give you proper values. I'm just trying to give you for free. And if you don't find the value, then don't consume it.
Um, but that's, that's at least my two cents on that. Thank you. Anyone else? I was thinking about what you're saying with the giving more of yourself. It's a bit like, similar to a Christian approach, let's say. It is. I was thinking also that it's similar to an approach like, Servant leadership [00:28:00] in, in which, okay, I don't know everything.
I don't know if everything, anything that the imposter syndrome speaking, anything, everything. I don't know everything. This is my opinion, contradict me, prove me wrong. And there are things, such things that I recognize as informal leaders. They're not always that courageous. Or that willing to step up those that, that do at least say you're wrong.
Okay. You had the courage to tell me you're I'm wrong. Okay. Prove me wrong. When you prove me wrong. Okay. Do what you say and take it all the way. If they do it all the way, then I think that's, that's their taking account stability or their action. I don't know if my action of challenging him to do so is actually leadership, but recognizing that in him [00:29:00] or her.
Telling me I'm wrong. That's something that I, I'd like to encourage people. And I saw people grow only from this exchange. Good one. Chuck, you had as well, one.
Yeah. Um, I think, I think leadership comes from number one respect. You have to, you have to get the people you're leading their respect. And that comes in multiple ways. That's with knowledge and the way you approach them. Um, there's a lot of stuff that comes, comes into this. Yeah. Um, I use it when I'm on the movie set, when I'm coordinating and I'm walking actors through specific things.
I'm asking the actor to trust me with their livelihood, so to say. And when I first approached them, they don't know me from squat and I'm coming up, tell them, Oh yeah, I'm going to keep you safe. Oh, blah, this is what we're going to do. Um, it just takes time. And [00:30:00] with that knowledge and the way you approach it, I think once you get that, Then the rest of it's easy because then, then they'll look up to you.
And when you do say something, they'll believe you much more than just, you know, throw something out there. You have to have that knowledge. You have to have that respect and all comes from your approach. I think. Oh,
yes. I have something to say when you give more than the people is, uh, it's a waiting for, so I have a personal case. When I went to a designer, I told him, yeah, it's the material. You can do whatever you want with the material. And the guy was really shocked. Hey, Frank, how much for the material? No, man, no payment for that.
That is a gift from me to you for your creativity and for your, uh, Design, what we are creating now is bigger than the [00:31:00] money. And the guy was, Hey man, I can't believe that you give me the material. Why men to start a legacy, you need to give something more that the people is expecting to get. And I took the decision because when I was starting my stuff, no one wanted to help me.
And I took the decision. I want to, I'm going to help the people the way I wanted to be helped in the past. And that. Mindset, mindset changed my whole path pattern to approach to the people and giving more that they are expecting. And as Jane said before, that is like an, a can opener building trust. Okay.
This guy is giving more than I want to pay for. That is a, this is a, a door opener. And if you can do that, please try someday with some people and you're going to see the results on the faces of the people. [00:32:00] Sorry, what about that? That is, that is a big, um, um, um, mind changer and mindset changer and life changer.
Better, Yevgeny?
Okay. You asked me to share what I think about this. Yeah, yeah, do. For me, it's a little bit, uh, tough topic for now because, uh, uh, I had my own experience before the big corporation, but it was, uh, almost family, uh, company where we were friends together with the, uh, owner, co owner and the, me as a leader of one of the project.
And of course, uh, the, the, I just repeat, uh, you and a [00:33:00] couple of guys before me, trust is really important. If you. Can't build trust between the followers, leader, and, uh, the company. Then you, you failed it's it's exactly what I think. Uh, and also trust is not just only about knowledge. Uh, when you provide that your experience and something, but also, uh, trust In the decision you do, even if you, uh, not really, uh, sure about the, the way you just need to be open with people and say, okay, let's try.
If you go wrong, then we will, uh, uh, change our way or our path. And if you don't do this with the people around. [00:34:00] Uh, they don't know that you probably don't know the right way. Uh, then you lose trust. Be open from the first step, uh, even if you are not, uh, really, uh, uh, experienced or, uh, think is it right, right, way or not.
And the, the second, uh, what I, uh, think important for me, give them the space. If you give people space to share their opinion, to, to discuss, to give, uh, their understanding of, uh, everything, just listen, exactly listen, not just listen to reply, but listen to understand what is their way to, uh, get the idea.
And maybe you can, um, get the real. follower, uh, who can support you in, in [00:35:00] defining your way. That's probably the two important things I feel could be relevant for, or I don't know, business or big corporation, or even if you have just your own, uh, small business with followers and so on. That's what I see now, but I'm just, uh, thinking, uh, maybe, maybe not everything is relevant.
For, for business you are doing. That's it. Thank you for sharing.
Questions, Andre, you had the conversation with Christian inside of the community and then we said let's do a call out of this because you were discussing 20 times back and forth, which is amazing. [00:36:00] But I think it's even better when we do this on the call.
Yes, because I, my questions pop up when everybody talks. I know. So for Frank's example with the material that's very specific and is like, depending on the domain. And I'm sorry, Evgeny, I, I was blocked just after Frank gave that example. I'm thinking for me, what, what can I trigger my coordination team to give back to the community and what for, for, for me, what, what to give him until the end of year, and that's, that's, I think I'm going to, I'm going to sleep on it and I'm really going to think about it, I don't know how specific I can be.
And that's, that's a very good, very good homework. [00:37:00] Um, And yeah, I was reading what, uh, the discussion with Christian was, and I mean, I, I just, uh, felt some hooks there in his paragraphs. So there, there was one with my self doubt. Is it the boss? Is it the manager? Am I a manager? Am I just managing resources?
You had the question about what to move the needle last week. I didn't move the needle. I have nothing to put there. It was just hand over interviews, trying to fill up position in my team. And yeah, just back to back because. Also, I gave my time for a project manager that, uh, cannot complete his work to do other stuff.
And I'm trying to complete his work on a project that is coming to my team. So [00:38:00] just compensating, I guess, as long as I can, as long as they have bandwidth. And yeah, otherwise trying to, I wrote there the stuff with the, with the trust equation, something, one of our trainers at IBM just taught us and then, uh, yeah, about the, the periodic one to ones I, I just gave it up because, uh, Uh, there was, it was too much.
So what I'm doing is just take every opportunity in my 21 people team to say what, when someone comes to me or just, okay, I didn't have, I'm triggered. So I didn't have any feedback from your area for some time. Now let's talk, let's just talk, tell me how you are, tell me, cause your area. And that's just about it.
So I don't do it like robots. Like, I used to do it, like, [00:39:00] robot in the beginning, like, every three months, going through all 21 people in my team. Now I feel the pressure of the end of year, uh, and next year it will be challenging. Uh, my, my role might disappear because my team will be reorganized. And I'm thinking, okay.
To give to give them something to have to stick with. I'm at peace with this. I have no problem with this. I'm happy about the organization, but in the transformation of work, I actually excited that this transformation might work for the, uh, for the department of the project. But, uh, yeah, with the, with the end of year, I feel some pressure, like having another, you know, round with everybody and saying, okay, what went well, what we managed to achieve, what we couldn't, uh, this time and [00:40:00] yeah, have a, have a soft landing in a, in a wrapping up.
But, uh, yeah, just, uh, it, I am thankful for the opportunities, uh, uh, even by UNs, but especially with Christian on this topic to get some hooks in there. Because a lot of times I have more questions about when I'm in such a long, long text like this than actually answers. That's what it is about, asking questions.
Anyone jumping? I don't think we can solve your challenges in a one hour call, to be brutally honest, right? Um, and it doesn't help, right? But, but you're not alone in your, how can I say, [00:41:00] being lost in, in, in the maze of having to manage a team that you cannot lead to its fullest extent, right? Right? At least not, not in my opinion, because for me, um, uh, leading a team meet, I need to have the time to speak with everybody in the team, um, to the, the full extent that is needed, which in the end limits the team size you are managing, leading, uh, directly to a number below 10.
If you really want to do it properly and if you want to do some other work as well, like the job you, you have signed up for, um, so it's, it's, it's really tough, um, and it's, you, I guess you are required to do a full end of year review for your [00:42:00] 21 people, which means sitting down, right, coming up with things, um, that you do not know.
Um, because how can you, if you don't have the space and the capacity to speak with everybody, which in the end will create a situation that is unsatisfactory for everyone, not only you, but for your team as well. Um, and all of what I said doesn't help you at all. No, I mean, it does, because I, you said something like there are too many, look, I know it's okay.
But the thing is that you said something else you said, okay, it's a maximum of 10. I was thinking even lower, like it should be a maximum of six or seven. I don't know the studies. I've never read theory in this matter. It was not my alma mater. But okay. How many is it enough? I'm trying to focus on the [00:43:00] coordinators who can, who should be focusing on the six to seven people team they have.
So I have three coordinators, I focused on them, they are most experienced, they can give back more. I mean, they're, let's say, the first, first resolution call for some of them. Of course, there are A few, I don't know, people who prefer to come to me. They just felt more close to me and they come to me and I welcome them.
They cannot, you know, cover all, like you said, everything you said was, was fair. This was the question. How, how much is enough? How many did, can you actually ? Mm-hmm. How many generals do you ? Did you ever have? Yes. How many generals? You had? Too many. No, too many generals. it, it really depends on the company culture because it's different from company to company.
I, [00:44:00] I, I, I go between this as well. I, I think it's about seven, eight. to show that you can do it properly, but what is maybe properly for me might not be properly for someone else. And it also depends on the company culture and the, let's say the time where the company or department is in. Sometimes you need way more time than it is less people.
And sometimes everything is already kind of organized and the team and the machinery is oiled. Then it's again different. But yeah, I would, I would, I mean, five I think would be amazing, but it's most of the time not possible due to company setup and savings and so on and head counts. But yeah, between, between five and eight, I would say is, is, would be comfortable to properly take care of the people.
But understanding [00:45:00] that in a lot of organizations, it's not the case. Like you're not supposed to lead, you're just supposed to manage, even that they, They might not say that initially, but if you just see what is done in a lot of corporates like big ones, I mean, talk, talking about 10, 000 people and above, it's just managing it's, it's not nothing about leadership because they don't care.
Sorry, I'm biased. Sometimes it's, it's the case. You
know, and I also think I also think it has something to do with the relationship with the people that they're working under you to if you've got a good working relationship, you can have more people because you're going to trust them more. Yeah. Then if, then if you're just coming in cold Turkey and, and you know, taking over something.
Yeah. Agree. Agree. And I think it's also if, are you physically together or are you just digitally [00:46:00] together is another thing. I think if you are close and you're in the same room every day, it's different than, like, in uk, Andrea, I, I know you're not seeing them at all. , most of the time at least it's a, it's another hurdle and even more difficult.
Yeah. It's, it's more of a challenge. Yeah. When in the few. At one point at the beginning of the year, the company said, I got to be three days in the office. Well, it's out the window now, not anymore. Apparently we'll see what the next year brings. And at that moment, my worry was how much am I going to feel their, uh, day by day, you know, Exteriorizing of emotions of frustrations and how much of that am I will I be able to block let's say when in order to Remain lucid and stuff.
So I did a bit of reading I [00:47:00] consulted some people and I I already took some actions Okay have my meetings elsewhere have time for quiet time for myself have They put a time in, you know, one person meeting room, so I am able to actually think and meditate about what's going on out there to be able to detach because, uh, I, I never had the chance to with, with the 21 people team to actually empathize with the group, right?
And with that trend of passing on emotions between each other. They resist the temptation to help everyone or help, or, okay, maybe you're just, they're just complaining at one point. Or maybe it's just a, an externalization of, of temporary frustration. There's not, I don't need to intervene every time, so I had this in my head, [00:48:00] but over the course of the year, somehow it, it faded and yeah, with no more than three, four people in the office at one point time, five, six.
It was manageable, , I'd say yes,
but, uh, the scenarios in my head keep rolling and rolling about the options, what to talk to each other with, with each one of them. And a lot of the times, I, I, I have more scenarios. I, I talk to them than I actually do. So I , I try to just, uh, filter and keep only what is relevant and what is actually helping.
So sometimes it's just less words, less intervention, but, uh, more to the point, say like, like I appreciate it with, with the leaders that influence me. Yeah, that's, that's, that's something I have learned. It's. [00:49:00] I don't know if COVID was part of that, but I think at least for me, what I feel is now it's even more important to be very specific and, and to the individual.
It was important in the past as well, but I think now, because it's way more digital that it is on the individual way more, because the time that you have together is so, so small. Yeah. When you do everything in a team, which is the more efficient way, at least seems like time wise, it's sometimes not efficient at all.
It's just, it's easier to take small pieces with one on one and then get the team together on specific things that are relevant for the whole team. Just recognizing the time, we have five minutes left. I need to be sharp because I have another call, but Frank. Okay, I just want to say that the COVID was, uh, pushing more the [00:50:00] human centered, uh, attention.
In the past, it was, like, generic. And now, the new generations, Sorry, they are really afraid about feeling the human contact. There is a mix between the technology and the human stuff. But now what I saw is that the younger generations, they are taking care about to be close, closer to the people around them.
Using the technology to go ahead, but keeping this human stuff.
What also helps is proper goal setting for a team, for sub teams, and for individuals that you somehow can, let's call it track over the period of time. So what I'm used to is really doing quarterly goals. I used to work with OKRs. So [00:51:00] I have a team goal, I have sub team goals, I have group goals, and I have individual goals that my team needs to achieve.
And I help them, but for like the group and team goals, they can help each other much better than me interrupting their work and being the wise person, the wise leader, telling them what to do. That's sorry, bullshit, because usually the results are better if you don't interfere. Um, And in that way, you can at least structure collaboration and also have a common goal that everybody's working towards, which also brings some kind of spirit.
And I forgot to mention, maybe you can help me, Jens. Communal thinking. Yeah. And that also brings you forward in your leadership aspect.[00:52:00]
Agree. I'm sorry, but I need to stop us talking now because I really need to go to the next meeting. Thank you very much for everyone, um, joining next week. We have the five minute keynotes. So everyone will get the possibility of doing five minutes keynotes. If, if you're not in, if we're not enough, then I do 15 minutes.
No joking. Like really utilize the opportunity to speak in front of people and we can. We can record it and you get the recording afterwards, which is another interesting thing. And then the one after what, after that, what was it again? I don't remember. I think it was something with yeah. Preparing for a keynote.
So that's another topic we will go into before the end of the year. Thank you very much, everyone. See you next Monday or in between and one on ones and so on. Thank you. Bye [00:53:00] bye.
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Transcript:
Personal development masterclass. One of the topics that's dear to my heart, because of what I have seen over the last 15 years is that personal development is quite seldom in organizations. It's not really taken, uh, in a proper way, at least in my eyes. So that's why I'm really keen on sharing this today.
So we have two. main perspectives. One or two topics for today. One is personal development talk versus performance evaluation. And then we do a deep dive into how I'm doing personal development talks. And then we do questions in the end. Personal development. So we have one part, which is the personal development talk, and then we have the performance evaluation.
And a lot of organizations, focus on performance evaluation. And the difference between those two is that the performance evaluation, the main part they are focusing on, or the main source of that is the company. So the company is on the top. And from there, it goes into, the individuals and the different tasks that need to be done to accomplish what's happening in the company, what is required to do to be done in the company.
And the individual that is doing the task is the last point. And then inside of the performance evaluation, you're looking backward. So you look, how did this person perform in the past? The development talk is the opposite. So the most important part of the. Development talk is the future. Where does the person want to be in the future?
And it has nothing to do with the outcome of the company or where the company wants to be. The goal of this is, and why, why do this personal development talk? I believe that if we are developing people in organizations beyond what the organization needs, they will contribute more to the company. They will contribute better.
So the goal of what I'm doing with development talks is finding out what the people desire and going deeper into that. And we will have a look at that in the next couple of slides. And then look, what are the different tasks of the organizations that fit the person and what the person wants to be. And then you marry these two things.
And then it works as well from a performance evaluation perspective. So that's my perspective on development talk and performance evaluation. Let's go into personal development talk a couple of, I think it's almost two years ago or something. I've developed this in as, as a worksheet. So if anyone is interested in getting this worksheet as a PDF.
Happy to share that. So, the starting point of a development talk is really a setup of the atmosphere and the place. So you are going to do a development talk with another person. So you are the manager and the, the other person is like reporting to you and then you're meeting up. So what you need to make sure of is that you have, an appropriate place.
The best case is always doing this outside of the office environment in a. In a place where people feel well, the atmosphere is super important. The time of the day is important, not doing it on Friday afternoon, for example, when people want to go on the weekend, of course, you need to be aware of your relationship with the other person, depending on how deep your relationship is.
You of course have then a perspective on how deep you can go. And how much that is. And then what is important as well is that you put the note-taking responsibility to the person that is inside the room or is working with you. So me as a leader, I always give the note taking responsibility for the other person because then you see what they understand and what they get out of that.
And then I always do as well. A version in front of us so that people understand this. So printing out this worksheet as an example, if you do that in a physical space, then you print it out and then you go into the development talk. And the starting point of the development talk goes really wide.
Looking into what's the personal vision like. I always ask these as open questions without showing them the worksheet in the beginning. Who do you want to be? And that's very, very, very wide. Like, who do you want to be? What does it mean? Some people who have never had a conversation like this, struggle with this.
So they start with, yeah, I want to be a manager. I want to be something specific. So they go very, very, very specific and they don't really look into the future. So the first round of this, I just, Help them to find out who they want to be and they write down, they write down a manager. I want to be a good father.
I want to be whatever they come up with. And then I go to the next question and I show them the next question, not before. So why do you want to be that person? So then they're reflecting on the answers they have given and then they go back and refine who they want to go to be. And that's an interesting process because what.
You as the manager that is holding this development talk are doing, you're literally shutting up and just asking open questions to tell me more. How, how does that feel? What does that look like? What would that look like in the future? So you only ask open ended question when that gets the person talking and reflecting.
So if you're saying this, what does it mean? So, and then they're explaining, explaining, and they go in a loop between who am I going to be? And why do I want to be that person? So until they have clarity, and the first loop is always. The starting point where they don't know what's going to come, then who am I going to be?
They come up with high-level topics and then they go, Why do I want to be that person? Then they go back to Who am I going to be? And then they go deeper. And I always then give them a perspective. Okay, think about five years, 10 years from now, who do you want to be? And then they go more particular in all of these things.
And then we go, we don't close this, we keep it, we put it aside. And then we go to the next sheet, which is a personal development map. So I want them again to reflect on certain questions. And it doesn't matter in the order, I just take them clockwise right now. But it's really going and answering the specific questions.
What do I want to learn? So you're asking this, the person that is in front of you. So what do you want to learn to be that person? So linking it back to that person of the future. And then you're asking, what do you want to improve? And then they come up with things. So it's, it's like writing down the, all the different topics and then what do I want to leave behind?
And then they come back with topics that they want to leave behind. Another question is what excites you? Yeah. And then going deeper into this, who is important to them? And then what is important to them? And when you have done this circle, you go around it and they were deeper in this topic.
What quite often happens then if you ask them, so how, if we go back to the other one, is that still the same thing you want to be? Because they have now clarified what they want to be. and answer the question, they go back to this one and then clarify, no, no, no, I want to be this, I want to be this. What I always ask them, in this part is to paint a picture.
So when, when we have finished with this one, I go back to this one. And say, from a personal vision perspective, imagine a picture and describe the picture that you see on the wall. And then they describe to me who they want to be and who they are going to strive to be inside of a picture and explain everything that is around them.
I've had, for example, a person that told me where they are going to live, what, how it feels, um, in this picture, where the kids in this picture, where the wife or husband and, and going really into details and then linking this to. A job perspective as well, because in the end, we are at least this part is in a job environment.
So they are linking that to the job environment of who they're going to be working with as well. So these two are super powerful. And then you go into the next step, which is a goal perspective. So it starts with the staircase. So in the top right corner, we have what is the goal. And the starting point is really, um, defining that goal.
So if you want to be this person in five years, what is the goal for the next year for you to be very specific? And of course, you can do smart goal setting and all of that, but it's in the end, What does feel right for that person? What is the development goal they want to reach in one year from now?
And then they formulate that goal. And then you go to the bottom of this page where you look into where do you stand today on a scale from one to 10. So they're rating themselves on how close are they to that goal. If they're close, then they're at 10 or 9. If they're far away, then they're at 1. And what always happens is they're somewhere in between, obviously.
So when they have rated that, then you look into what are the things that get you closer to that goal, meaning moving your scale from 5 to 10. And that's what they are writing down above the stairs. So, above the stairs are the things that are getting them closer to their goal. And then they're defining this in bullet points and formulating that out.
And [you do that obviously all in a conversation. You ask the person who is doing the development talk, you are asking them questions to get them moving. You're asking them clarifying questions about the topics that are put, into the sheet. And then the next part is, what are the things that getting you further away from that goal?
So downstairs, if you think at it from a staircase perspective, and then they're writing these things down and then they have a clear picture of a goal staircase where they, they know they want, where they want to be linking that to the vision that's five years from now and the goal picture, and then they rate themselves.
And have then clear understanding of that are the things I need to do to get to my goal and that are the things I should not be doing. And then the last step of the development talk is getting specific. So now we zoom into one year and actionable goals that help them or tasks that get them towards the one-year perspective.
So what are the things they're going to do? When are they going to do this? What do they need to make happen to be able to do this? What are the things they need help with and how I'm, how they going to measure them? So it's a very, very simple setup where they write down literally the different steps that help them to get there.
And they're putting measurable goals towards the goal. And this is roughly. I would say one and a half hours, even if we go through this right now in a theoretical setting in, let's say 15 minutes in a real conversation, in a coaching style, where you ask the manager or coach the other person to find out what they are desiring and where they want to be.
It takes roughly one and a half hours if you do that well, sometimes it's faster depending on the relationship as well. The fascinating thing with this is it has zero to do with the company you work in and one hundred percent to do with who they want to be. And as well as zero to do with you as their manager, if you're their manager, like your perspective, your opinion on anything of that.
Um, just to give you a couple of examples, I've had people that told me that they want to be. building their own company in the next five years and they worked in the company and I was their manager they told me because they trusted me that they wanted to build their own company and we built a plan for how they were going to build their own company and I've had situations where people told me that they want to get married in the next five years and then we built a plan to get them towards marriage getting married and looked into how that does that work with the career perspective same with kids and all the other things so this is a development tool you That I use with everyone that is working with me over time because I believe that as further we as managers and organizations help people to develop as better it is.